Showing posts with label Franck Ribery. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Franck Ribery. Show all posts

FIFA - FRANCE FOOTBALL GOLDEN BALL 2013 | IS CRISTIANO RONALDO ALREADY THE WINNER ?

Tomorrow night we will have a new ( or renewed ) "King of World Football". FIFA-France Football will announce the winner of the "2013 FIFA Golden Ball Award" in Zurich in front of a "creme de la creme" audience from three candidates: Franck Ribery (Bayern Munich), Lionel Messi ( FC Barcelona) & Cristiano Ronaldo ( Real Madrid ).

Whoever of these three "Titans of Football" is proclaimed the winner, the controversy will be assured. Not everyone will be in accord or happy with the announcement. From a collective point of view, Franck Ribery deserves the prize after helping Bayern Munich with German League, German Cup & Champions League. However, as seen in 2010 when Spanish star Andres Iniesta won the World Cup with Spain, he too deserved it then but was ousted by team-mate Lionel Messi on individual criteria. Lionel Messi has had a "troubled" second half of 2013 with injuries which has lowered his form & kept him out of the playing fields months but his "pedigree" cannot be questioned . While Cristiano Ronaldo has been a true "Hurricane" with goals in 2013 with unbelievable numbers, but he has not won a "Collective" title with Real Madrid. There are plenty of ingredients to open debate & keep it heated for hours & hours, even days & weeks.


Best Players in World Football

The FIFA - France Football Golden Ball has lost credibility in recent years which is a real pity. The accusations of fixing, economic interests & knowledge of winners before the ceremony has blemished the "concept". This year an added controversy was added when FIFA re-opened & extended the voting to included the World Cup European Groups qualifiers for Brazil 2014 which included the Portugal - Sweden tie that saw Cristiano Ronaldo single handedly put his Nation into the World Cup. Many saw this as giving Cristiano Ronaldo the advantage & even candidate Franck Ribery announced to media that he was "disgusted" with the FIFA decision to extend the period of votes. 

So who will win?

Everything indicates that Cristiano Ronaldo will win. There is circumstantial evidence:


  • the massive "media campaign" to his favour in the last months.
  • numerous surveys that indicate CR7 will win. Surveys that include direct contact with voters around the World to get their votes,  independent of the supposed contractual "confidentiality clause" that FIFA places.
  • the changing of mind from Ronaldo that he will now attend the Award Gala. The Portuguese star announce his NO ATTENDANCE after FIFA President Blatter showed his preference for Messi & "offended" him with a ridiculous impersonation.
  • the decision of Cristiano Ronaldo to travel to Zurich with all his family . This last point is very significant.
Added to the above, there are "dark room" indicators that "influencers" called for some fresh air for the Award as it gets "monotonous" Lionel Messi winning every year, along with the mayor Sportswear Multinationals & sponsors calling "its our turn for a piece of the pie" & change.

If the above is all true ( now its speculation ) it puts in doubt the FIFA message of "...the winner is securely locked away in a Swiss vault & comes out to the public on the day of the ceremony"...story. Although we all know that France Football has to do a complete "photo session" with the winner weeks before to get its special "Golden Ball Award" issue on the streets the next day of formal announcement.

Either way, tomorrow all doubts or rumoured knowledge will be formalized. Whoever wins the controversy will be assured, & extras doubts exposed over a prize of this category that should be completely rid off, & should be only known for its coherency, independence & transparency.  But nothing with FIFA lately ( Qatar World Cup,  for example ) has any of the three.

Good luck to all three candidate,  & may the "better" win.

FIFA ANNOUNCE THE FINAL THREE CANDIDATES FOR GOLDEN BALL AWARD 2013

The news released by FIFA - France Football is a "no News". As expected the final three candidates up for the FIFA France Football Golden Ball Award - Best World Footballer 2013 - are Cristiano Ronaldo ( Real Madrid CF ), Franck Ribery ( Bayern Munich ) & Lionel Messi ( FC Barcelona ).

FIFA Golden Ball Candidates 2013

The winner will be announced in Zurich (Switzerland) on the 13th of January 2014. The Award will be given under controversy as the continual "FIFA fumbles & errors" has harmed its credibility with accusations of fixing in recent years & more so these final months. Which ever of the three players finally wins the Award they will be criticised as the opinions are split on all fronts.

In the "Best Coach 2013" the three candidates are Jupp Heynckes (Bayern Munich), Jurgen Klopp (Borussia Dortmund) & Ferguson (Manchester United). The three candidates for "Best Goal 2013" are Ibrahimovic, Matic y Neymar.

FIFA GOLDEN BALL AWARD 2013 LIST OF 23 CANDIDATES

French Magazine "France Football" has released the list of 23 candidates eligible for this years "FIFA GOLDEN BALL Award". The surprise is that there are only 2 Spanish born players & both from FC Barcelona: Andres Iniesta & Xavi Hernandez.

FIFA Golden Ball 2013

The full list of 23 FIFA Golden Ball candidates:

Gareth Bale (Tottenham/Real Madrid)
Edinson Cavani (Nápoles/PSG)
Radamel Falcao (Atlético/Mónaco)
Eden Hazard (Chelsea)
Zlatan Ibrahimovic (PSG)
Andrés Iniesta (Barcelona)
Philipp Lahm (Bayern Múnich)
Robert Lewandowski (Borussia Dortmund)
Lionel Messi (Barcelona)
Thomas Müller (Bayern Múnich)
Neymar (Santos/Barcelona)
Manuel Neuer (Bayern Múnich)
Mesut Özil(Real Madrid/Arsenal)
Andrea Pirlo (Juventus)
Franck Ribery (Bayern Múnich)
Arjen Robben (Bayern Múnich)
Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid)
Bastian Schweinsteiger (Bayern Múnich)
Luis Suárez (Liverpool)
Thiago Silva (PSG)
Yaya Toure (Manchester City)
Robin van Persie (Manchester United)
Xavi (Barcelona)

FIFA will reduce this list down to 3 candidates on the 2nd of December & will announce the winner the 13th of January 2013 in Zurich. The current hot favourite is Franck Ribery of Bayern Munich with perhaps Cristiano Ronaldo a close second. However, Cristiano Ronaldo may be getting himself "whipped off" with his public comments & actions of late ( e.g. not attending UEFA Best European Player ceremony ), comments on UEFA & indirectly Platini over Portugals next World Cup qualifier & FIFA President Blatter comments that he prefers Messi. We all know that the FIFA Golden Ball has a heavy weight/element of Marketing & "pulling" the "FIFA/UEFA political band-wagon".

Stay tuned!

UEFA BEST PLAYER IN EUROPE 2012 - 2013 | RIBERY FAVOURITE AHEAD OF RONALDO - MESSI

The local Football observers & punters have French International & Bayern Munich Franck Ribery as favourite to take the "UEFA Best Player in Europe" season 2012-2013 award. If the Frenchman wins he will be come the second after Zidane ( 2002 ) to take the prestigious Individual European Football Prize

World Football UEFA 2013

To win Ribery will have to overcome in the voting  from European Sports-Football journalist & the two other candidates, Lionel Messi ( FC Barcelona ) & Cristiano Ronaldo ( Real Madrid CF). The first scored a massive 46 goals to help his Club with the Spanish Liga, while the latter was the maximum Goalscorer of Champions League with 12 goal & notched up his 100th International Cap with Portugal.

The rest of the candidates have already been assigned their place:

4 Arjen Robben (NED) – FC Bayern München (57 points)
5 Robert Lewandowski (POL) – Borussia Dortmund (39)
6 Thomas Müller (GER) – FC Bayern München (38)
7 Bastian Schweinsteiger (GER) – FC Bayern München (32)
8 Gareth Bale (WAL) – Tottenham Hotspur FC (24)
9 Zlatan Ibrahimović (SWE) – Paris Saint-Germain FC (14)

10 Robin van Persie (NED) – Manchester United FC (10)

I personally have a feeling Cristiano Ronaldo may win this prize tomorrow. It is just a hunch & I risk being wrong of course. Franck Ribery is a worthy candidate & if he did win it would be well worth & deserved as he put in a brilliant season & helped his Club win the big three titles : German League, Cup & Champions League.

The winner will be announced tomorrow in Monaco along with the Champions League group draw which will be held earlier in the day.

CRISTIANO RONALDO - RIBERY - MESSI FINALISTS UEFA PLAYER OF THE YEAR

UEFA has handed in their list of the three candidates up for the "UEFA Player of the Year" season 2012-2013. The three chosen are:
  • Cristiano Ronaldo ( Real Madrid CF)
  • Franck Ribery ( Bayern Munich)
  • Lionel Messi ( FC Barcelona)
The winner will be announced the 29th of August in Monaco where 29 leading Football journalists will vote live & direct via an electronic voting system.


Spanish Soccer

Cristiano Ronaldo was the Champions League leading goal scorer with 12 goals, Lionel Messi was the leading Spanish Liga ( European ) goal scorer with 46 goals & Franck Ribery lead his team Bayern Munich to win the Champions League, apart from German title & Cup.

TRANSFER SPECULATION 2010: RIBERY LIKES SPAIN & CHELSEA FC LIKES VAN DER VAART

Source: Spanish Football Sports Blog /
The FRANCK RIBERY fish tail keeps wagging as the season comes soon to its end & the future of the BAYERN MUNICH player becomes daily news within the Football World. The Frenchmen has spoken & has already eliminated a candidate: CHELSEA FC. According to his comments to Sports daily “Sport Bild” he will be making a final choice in the coming weeks & his desire is to play in Spain if he finally decides NOT to renew with Bayern Munich.


In fact, Ribery goes on to add that the two other candidates (along with Bayern) are FC BARCELONA & REAL MADRID. For the Striker it’s not a question of only money, it also about his wife who longs for a more “Southern European” climate & “way of life”, & this is a factor that will be taken into account when deciding.

Meanwhile, at REAL MADRID, the news has jumped onto the local online editions (“AS” & “Marca”) that CHELSEA FC is seriously thinking in Real Madrid Dutch International VAN DER VAART as the replacement for Deco. The current state of form, with goals included, have put the midfielder back into the European Footabll spotlight & the Premier League Club has taken note. In fact, the story makes reference on how it was Chelsea FC Italian Coach Ancelotti who specifically asked that Van Der Vaar be part of next seasons project, something that will need more evidence.

The price that Chelsea FC puts up for the Dutchman is 11M€, which is a bit short of what Real would expect, plus it´s in the interest of Madrid to see how their player performs in the upcoming World Cup tournament with Holland.

REAL MADRID: "FRANCK RIBERY WILL PLAY NEXT SEASON AT MADRID" - ACCORDING TO FIFA AGENT

Source: Spanish Football Sports Blog /
Ernesto Bronzetti is more than just a very well connected & influential figure in European Football, apart from being a FIFA agent he seems to be a clairvoyant. The man predicted ahead of time that both Kaká & Cristiano Ronaldo would eventually sign with Real Madrid. Now he makes another prediction, that Bayern Munich French International FRANCK RIBERY will end up at Real Madrid next season. More than a comment from looking into a Crystal Ball, the news generated is due to the fact the Bronzetti has friends in very, very high places, & thus his word has credibility.


(photo:Ribery_marca.com_afp)
The latest from Munich is that Ribery is in no hurry to sit down & discuss the renewal of his current contract with Bayern which ends in 2011. This is interpreted as a clear sign that the player is seriously contemplating leaving the German Club. Where?

Bronzetti – the “Oracle” - has given us a hint! Stay tuned.

REAL MADRID: RIBERY "HAD" AN AGREEMENT

The "secret" that everyone knew about but no one admitted has
come out in the open after BAYERN MUNICH Directive Uli Hoeness
admitted that Frenchman FRANCK RIBERY had come to an "agreement"
with REAL MADRID. Spanish sports daily “Marca” has published today
in its online edition,that Ribery wished to abandon Bayern Munich due
to problems with ex Coach Jurgen Klinsmann last season.

(photo:Ribery_marca.com)























However, the Bayern Directive has added that Ribery has changed
mind & will consider renewing with the German Club if they can
guarantee a team that will be competitive next season & assure that
the side can compete for important titles.

Said this, along with Real Madrid, there is a list of European Clubs
that have Ribery in mind of which FC Barcelona, Chelsea FC,
Manchester City & now Juventus has joined. The latter has put the
Frenchmen as a maximum priority according to Italian press, but the
economic problems at Juventus could halt their ambitious plans.
Meanwhile, at Real Madrid alternative names have sprung up into
the picture, like Valencia CF player David Silvia & Sevilla FC winger
Jesús Navas.

Stay tuned!

FRANCK RIBERY: HUMOUR FROM BARCELONA

Ahhh, those funny Catalans. Here is some Barcelona based humour
from "Futbolitis", the cartoon section of "Mundo Deportivo", in
reference to FRANCK RIBERY & his speculated move to Spanish
Football:










Translated:
"Zidane would love to see me go to Madrid"

"Henry would like me to go to Barça"

" On the otherhand my representative would be happy to see me at
the Club that gives him the biggest commission"

REAL MADRID 2010: RIBERY CLOSER & CLOSER?

Pro-Real Madrid national sports daily "AS" has been active these days
with the possibility of BAYERN MUNICH French star FRANCK
RIBERY
landing next season at the Spanish Club.
















The Spanish paper is convinced & certain that Ribery has already
decided for Real Madrid ahead of Chelsea FC, Inter Milan & FC
Barcelona. With this last team, the daily mentions that the
players decision to not take up Barça offer is a serious blow to
Coach Guardiola´s plans for next season.

Having said all this, SFS will like to remind you that it is all still
speculation & rumour. The player has not gone public with any
decision at all, although the "hand" of Zidane is playing a very
influencial role along with a "rumour" that Bayern & Real Madrid
have already a verbal agreement.

Stay tuned!

REAL MADRID: FRANCK RIBERY STAYS AT BAYERN MUNICH

It did not happen. The clock passed 00.00hrs & the transfer window
shut to see FRANCK RIBERY stay at BAYERN MUNICH. However,
all reports indicate that the Frenchmen will be the next star to sign
for REAL MADRID next season, there seems to be a "pre-contract"

(type Ronaldo) already signed & a "tacit" Club agreement as part
of the Arjen Robben transfer operation.

Until then Ribery will scare Bundesliga defenders & forest deers!



"BOOOOOO" !!!

WHAT FINALLY HAPPENED WILL FRANCK RIBERY & REAL MADRID?

Remember BAYERN MUNICH French International FRANCK RIBERY?
Yes, of course you do, & you maybe wondering how has it all ended
with REAL MADRID.The news is that it is almost certain (99%) that
Ribery will stay another year at the German Club, and then next
year make the move to the Spanish Club.

















Spanish daily “AS” publishes comments from a German media
interview were Ribery says that if to leave Germany it would be to
Real Madrid & local papar "AS" goes on to say themselves that his
agent Alain Migliaccio has signed a “pre-contract” ( type Cristiano
Ronaldo when at Manchester United) that secures his player a 5
year contract at Real Madrid for next season. With Ribery only
having a year left of his contract with Bayern in 2010 the Spanish
Club believes his transfer fee wont be more than around 30M€,
much less than if Bayern had sold this season.

Stay tuned!

REAL MADRID: IS FRANCK RIBERY STILL A POSSIBILITY?

Mr. Franck Ribery has opened the “Box of Pandora” again playing
with his French National side yesterday against the Faroe Islands
when in theory he was injured. In fact the BAYERN MUNICH player
hasn’t participated in any play with his Club citing a knee injury.
This has been interpreted as a last ditched sign that the
Frenchmen wishes to leave his Club & he wishes Bayern Munich to
open up & listening to offers.















Supposing this is the true signal, there are plenty of offers to be
heard; from CHELSEA FC, INTER MILAN & the most likely from REAL
MADRID
. Today´s Spanish sports daily “Marca” publish that Real Madrid
hasn’t forgotten FRANCK RIBERY & may make a final offer to get the
winger over for this season. Although the Spanish Club has said that
they have shut the buying session, Real Madrid may go for a last
moment buy before the close of the transfer window on the 31st of
August.

According to news sources, Bayern Munich Coach Van Gaal looks on
with favourable eyes Dutch players ARJEN ROBBEN & WESLEY
SNEIJDER
, plus VAN DER VAART could also interest, three players
that Real Madrid could put into a hypothetical last offer to Bayern
Munich for Ribery. The cited Spanish source publishes that Real
Madrid could offer 30M€ in cash plus two of the cited players
(Robben & Sneijder the best candidates) in order to convince the
Germans of letting go of their French player.
















At this point
we can only say that it is all fiction as Bayern Directives
have said in all sorts of different tones that they will NOT SELL
Franck Ribery. But Football changes on a daily basis & everything is
possible until the 31st of August. We can only just wait & learn why
Ribery played yesterday when he was supposedly injured & if he
finally does stays at Bayern for this new upcoming season.


Stay tuned!

SFS has plenty of Asian readers who ask for team squad photos. Here
is one that may interest as SFS also has lots of petitions from REAL
MADRID fans "screaming for photos. The only players here missing are
Sergio Ramos, Marcelo
& Raul...hopefully SFS will be able to get
another photo with the full
final team.













BAYERN THREATEN TO TAKE REAL MADRID TO FIFA: RIBERY IS FURTHER AWAY THAN CLOSER!

BAYERN MUNICH is getting tough, real tough with REAL MADRID &
FRANCK RIBERY after their President Karl-Heinz Rummenigge
went publicly on the Sunday German paper “Bild am Sonntag
threatening to take the Spanish Club to FIFA.
























According to Rummenigge, Bayern Munich hasn’t given permission
to Real Madrid to talk to Franck Ribery or his agent on any transfer
matters. They demand that Real Madrid immediately stop their
attempts of signing their player & forget about the idea. They have
shut the “transfer window” opportunity days ago when they put
forward a price of 80M€ - take it or leave it – that Real hasn’t
replied too. However, everyone knows that this price was a
“smokescreen” as no one would pay it & Bayern would never
accept it if offered.

The player has let known that he wishes to leave for Real Madrid
& is angry at his Club for not at least allowing Real Madrid to
present an offer & then listen to it. The player is not happy &
this is making his German bosses even more irritated.

With this scene, the chances of Ribery going to Real Madrid are
slim, very unlikely at this point of time. However, things may
change as the transfer window closes on the 31st of August & no
one can predict the future especially in Football

REAL MADRID: FRANCK RIBERY ACITIVATED AGAIN?

Alarms that something big may happen are sounding in Spanish
Football media (
click) as they announce that FRANCK RIBERY´s
representative Alain Migliaccio has travelled urgently to the City
of Munich to supposedly meet BAYERN Directives. It is speculated
that Ribery´s representative has flown to Germany to convince his
Club to accept the REAL MADRID offer suspected to be around 55M€.

(photo: marca.com)














That’s the utopian Spanish press view; the other possibilities are that
Mr. Migliaccio has travelled to see his client, or to hear directly from
Bayern Munich that Franck Ribery should stop f*cking around & that he
will not be sold this season & forget about Real Madrid or any other
Club.

Better not rush to any ideas & wait to see how things really evolve.
As said there is still plenty of time to see how this “transfer drama”
concludes. Stay tuned,the very latest news is that Bayern will demand
that Ribery rejoin the squad do the pre-season with the whole team
Oschberghof.

FRANCK RIBERY - THE MAN ...& ARTICLE 17

FRANCK RIBERY, a clip to get to know the man. Listen to his words
towards the end of the clip:



REAL MADRID has 55 million reasons to make you feel good…,
assuming that is the Club Ribery truely wishes to go. Plus “Article
17” of the FIFA players statute in accordance with European Union
rules – also known as the “Webster Case” - may give incentive
for Bayern Munich to sell this year by grabbing the money OR risk
losing next year with a price that could be a basement bargain.
Food for thought for German Club Directives.

Stay tuned, to be continued...!

REAL MADRID & FC BARCELONA: TRANSFERS COMPETITION - FRANCK RIBERY, XABI ALONSO, DE ROSSI & CESC FABREGAS

The signing season still has a way to go – until 31st of August - &
anything can happen, however for the moment REAL MADRID is
having difficulties with two key prospects. Firstly FRANCK RIBERY
is drifting further away on a daily basis, with a hard-line BAYERN
MUNICH
that does not wish to sell the German – or at least to Real
Madrid - & have put a “mind blowing” 80M€ price tag. Real Madrid
General Director Jorge Valdano has already said on Spanish media
that it is too high & that if player is willing the Club will wait
patiently for next season. Secondly, XABI ALONSO gets difficult after
LIVERPOOL FC placed a 47M€ transfer price that has surprised many
including REAL MADRID. The Spanish International was priced 20M€
last season in an aborted attempt to sell to Juventus, but this year
it seems the only team with cash is Real & everyone wants a piece
of the action.
























REAL MADRID Director General Jorge Valdano also spoke to Spanish
media about this & mentioned that although Real is still interested in
Xabi Alonso & will keep negotiating if the price lowers, they are
already working on PLAN B. The cover of Spanish daily “Marca”
publishes that the Plan B player is AC ROMA midfielder DANIELE DE
ROSSI
& that Real Madrid is willing to pay 30M€ to get the Italian
International over to Madrid.
























This is the latest. But other speculation from “Mundo Deportivo”
is that FC BARCELONA under instructions from Coach Guardiola
will make a serious attempt to convince Bayern Munich for Franck
Ribery
. The Club is willing to make a record bid of 60M€, if that
fails they will then go onto the other option of CESC FABREGAS
who has a 46M€ price tag according to English media. Coach
Guardiola sees Ribery as vital in his scheme of things & desires
that FC Barcelona at least make an effort & compete with Real
Madrid & Chelsea FC , but he also realises
that Bayern is firm &
it looks like the Germans will not sell under any circumstances.














In all cases, we will have to wait & see as negotiations tighten &
weaken in the normal process of play with each agent asking for
the maximum benefit in this Football poker game. Anything is
possible, new names will appear as the transfer market twists &
turns, plus as said earlier the market doesn’t shut until the 31st of
August.

All that can be done is to stay tuned, SFS will keep you informed.

BAYERN MUNICH GIVES REAL MADRID NINE DAYS TO PAY 80M€ FOR FRANCK RIBERY - OR SHUT UP!

According to news picked up here from German paper “Bild”,
BAYERN MUNICH wishes to shut all controversy before the start
of the Bundesliga & has given REAL MADRID an ultimatum. The
German Club has given 9 days to Real Madrid to make a frightening
80M€ offer for FRANCK RIBERY or withdraw as the Germans
will then shut the door.














New Coach Van Gaal & Captain Van Brummel have already told the
Club that the “situation” needs to be solved before the start of the
new season as the team risks internal conflicts which will affect
the dressing room.

As one can see it is an outrageous transfer figure which Real Madrid
will need to negotiate to lower substantially. However, there is
another option, agree with the player to stay another year at Bayern
Munich & then come over to Real Madrid next year. Franck Ribery
comes to the end of his contract & Bayern will be forced to sell. The
last option is gaining ground in the last few days, however anything
can happen.

REAL MADRID: WESLEY SNEIJDER IN THE MIND OF CHELSEA FC?

According to English paper “News Of The World” ( that in itself
maybe dodgy) , CHELSEA FC has shifted its interest for BAYERN
MUNICH
Frenchmen FRANCK RIBERY & placed its sights on REAL
MADRID
midfielder WESLEY SNEIJDER.
























Real Madrid paid 27M€ for the Dutchmen & is on the “list” of players
for sale. However, Sneijder has already expressed his desire to stay
at Real Madrid, but a good team & offer may change his mind. Other
Clubs rumoured to have shown interest are Juventus, Inter & Bayern
Munich
. This last Club is also sounding with Wesley Sneidjer entering
in a possible operation ( along with Real team-mate Robben) is a
Franck Ribery offer from Real Madrid to Bayern.

Stay tuned.

REAL MADRID: FRANCK RIBERY - "...I WISH TO LEAVE...REAL MADRID OR NOTHING"

According to alleged comments picked up in the French sports daily
“L´Equipe”, BAYERN MUNICH French forward FRANCK RIBERY
has done what Valencia CF player David Villa did not do & was
expected. In the first day of training for the new season
for Bayern Franck Ribery told his new Coach Luis Van Gaal
(translated) “… I have made up my mind, I wish to leave”, when
Van Gaal asked what his desires were for the new season. Ribery
than added “…I will go to Real Madrid or nowhere… I would love
to have a chance & speak to the Club directives
”.

(photo: as.com)















This maybe (maybe) the beginning of a “softening” process in
reference to the inflexibility of his Club Bayern Munich who do not
wish to sell the French International - which is their right! The only
opinion that Bayern will consider is an outrageous offer, something
that many intuitively suspect is related to the hard-line posture of
the German Club. Bayern Munich could be tensing the wire as much
as possible & “throwing a glove” at Real Madrid in order to gain the
maximum offer possible if a transfer does finally take place.

Stay tuned, this has a long road to go yet!
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